Difference between revisions of "September 2017 Moot"

Skylar hitches the sports bag a bit higher on her shoulder. She's spent most of the moot close to the other Glass Walkers from The Resistance, but the ragabash's restlessness has kept her moving, even if the crowded space has kept that to a simple shift of her weight.

When the introductions are concluded and the time has come to move to sept business, she makes eye contact with the lupus, Two-Laws, currently acting as Truthcatcher for the moot. With his acknowledgement, she steps forward and lifts the bag from her shoulder, as if in demonstration. "Y' all know 'bout th' birds in th' umbra, an' how they come whenever somebody crosses th' gauntlet, yeah?" It doesn't really seem to be a question. She lowers the bag again, and pulls out a small, rubics-cube-sized box that looks more like a Borg ship than anything else. "An' how th' guys with th' SUVs an' guns come on this side, too. I got an idea t' find out more 'bout how they work, an' I made some talens t' figure stuff out."

Skylar holds up the small cube and then places it back in the bag. "These've got Cockroach spirits in 'em, ready t' help us find out how many, an' how fast, th' birds come on th' other side, an' what they do when they get there, an' if anythin' else comes, too. I got nine 'f 'em, an' I can set up cameras on this side, so we can time th' guys with th' SUVs, too, but I need t' know 'f anybody else's got good ideas 'f where t' put 'em. I want t' get th' best map we can, an' I promised th' 'roaches we'd set 'em free fast."

Monday was a little late thanks to class but she got there. But she is surely doing her best to just be quiet and find somewhere to sit. Her messenger bag being held against her chest as she looks over everyone present. A nervous wave and smile is given to anyone who happens to look at her.

Bankara is there, as well. This is actually her first real moot... at least, since she abandoned her birth kin. So, she's hanging back, and watching quietly; after all, knowledge of the rites is something she'll have to master, in time.

Derek has been mostly silent, this moot. Speaking when spoken to or appropriate of course, but mostly keeping his own counsel. He arrived probably 15-25 minutes early, unless there was some reason that wasn't appropriate. He's inclined his head politely to all and sundry, and probably spoken to only a few, unless directly addressed. Apparently he's a pretty quiet kid?

Warez Seeker, Fostern Theurge of the Glasswalker tribe, also introduced himself as a member of The Resistance, the last remaining pack of The Sept of Pontiac's Secret. That pack's alpha, Juice Thug, and ragabash, Supa Barrio Brotha, both declined to attend the moot, but one of Warez' packmates did make the event as well:

Speaks-Two-Laws is a rarity - a lupus Glasswalker. Fostern philodox, in this case, and he's alert and attentive, no matter what his alpha thinks about showing up here. He's a stickler, talk out of turn? Get glared at, maybe even growled at if they're particularly mouthy. He has Truth of Gaia up, and if anyone says anything they don't really believe (and it isn't obviously some kind of rhetorical device) they get the same treatment, if not worse.

Sandra arrived roughly on time, with one of the new faces in tow. She's remained by his side throughout the initial phases of the moot, and hasn't seen it fit to move since. The lack of explanation given regarding the birds themselves gets a brief sweep of the people around the room, the Ahroun visibly assessing who among those gathered is looking more mystified than the rest.

Honor's Whisper is present. The young blond woman otherwise known as 'Sera' or merely 'Sokolov' stands front and center, dressed sensibly (and perfectly) without a hair out of place. She's giving a nod towards Skylar for her to continue. Near to her is a notebook, to which she is copiously adding things as people speak'.

Jasmine is standing at the rear of the group, her hands clasped in front of her as she watches the others carefully. She doesn't say anything, having not been at a real Moot for a long time. She also starts putting faces to names and names to faces, listening....

Kaminari has been here since well before the moot started, setting up and getting things organized. Her introduction was long and formal, Kaminari Fujiwara, a homid cliath Hakken Shadowlord from Japan. Ritenamed Calmed the Raging God, Deed named Eyes of the Storm, and a Mirror of the Oedo Beast Court, whatever that means. She nods when Skylar speaks, "The birds are a serious problem, thank you. I have an idea that overlaps with something Sandra-san and I have been working on. It seems the key to reclaiming the Spirit Realm here is a series of web pillars, almost like the trunks of great trees descending from the sky at certain places. We need to cross at those places anyway in order to deal with them which triggers the birds. I think if we combine those efforts we not only make progress restoring the umbra but learn about the birds as well. Shadi can tell you about their response times in this world, she has cracked their radio communications and was listening when they responded to our last umbral incursion along with Honda-san my bodyguard, evading them was a near thing but I think she learned a few things about their response that could be useful to you. Destroying the Web Pillars themselves seems to be the key to restoring the Umbra, when we scouteed the after effects of the one we cut, the weaver automata were almost non-existant and the normal spiders were taking over again and fixing the damage."

Said new face with Sandra is obviously a Silver Fang -- the breeding is unmissable and unmistakable -- and dressed fairly casually, if well. He's been quiet but attentive since the point in the begining during which he introduced himself in a crisp British accent as "Oliver Cholmondeley-Fetherstonhaugh," pronounced 'chumley-fanshaw', because of course it is, "called Ouroboros; born of man beneath the new moon, and Cliath," with a barely perceptible pause, his gaze flicking over the assembled, "of the Shadow Lords." Much shorter into than one might have expected, even if that's probably not the least odd part. At Kaminari's mention of 'Sandra-san', he glances sidelong to his, apparently, tribemate beside him, lifting one brow fractionally, then looking back to the Hakken as she continues.

"Also," Skylar says after returning Sera's nod, and then pauses as Kaminari adds to what she's said. "Also. I got an idea 'bout what to do 'bout th' skaterpunk. Sebastian. If y' ain't run into him, he's really annoying. He can turn into smoke, an' he can take other people with him. He did it with Damien, one time. Anyway. If y' want t' help me with that one, maybe talk t' me, after."

Winifred arrived on time, the bonegnawer Galliard hanging to the back. She'd gnawer, she's metis, she's a homeless chick with a guitar. And so she's just drinking in the moot, learning the names and faces. Hearing the problems and solutions and just listening as a good Galliard can.

Jim walks in. This would not be his preference, but he's a guest here, it's indoors, and really there's no safe, convenient, or comfortable way to get in here in the other form. He'd be lesser known in this form, as little as the new guy is known. But coming in, the man says a quiet 'Howdy' to Stanislav, before taking a seat in the back. Perching his backside on a table, for now he just watches.

The man's breathing is slow and deep. Trying to remain calm. He's been told this is okay. But he's also been told that Garou are death on paws, and they have bad tempers. But a quest is a quest.

To Oliver's glance, Sandra (having previously introduced herself as Sandra Ulrich, Cliath Ahroun, Shadow Lords; Rited Razor-Eater, and, like her tribemate, looking not at all like a Shadow Lord) gives a one-shoulder shrug, of sorts. It's clear from listening to Kaminari that she has things to add to that - a lot, actually - but, for the sake of decorum, maintains her silence for the time being.

Derek did announce himself when it came to that, of course: Derek Kemeny, homid Cliath Shadow Lord Theurge, rited Honors the Altar. Short but sweet. He spoke loud enough to be heard, but not all that much louder. Paired with his introduction was a polite inclination of his head. At Skylar's talk of Sebastian and what follows, he nods sharply, most likely a sign that he'd like to assist.

Skylar returns her focus to Sera, nodding one more time, as if to signal that she's done, and then looks to Sandra before she heads back over to where Warez stands.

Monday quietly makes her way over towards Winifred and stays close, offering a nervous smile before she looks back to what is going on. She swallows softly, wondering if she should introduce herself but thinks it may be best to wait until later. So many people makes her nervous after all.

There's a minor exchange between Warez and Speaks-Two-Laws when the floor is passed to Sandra, a brief moment where it might seem that Warez is adding some bit of context for the Philodox's benefit. It earns him a growl. Which in turn earns a roll of his eyes. He falls silent though.

Sandra steps forward, standing by the snack bar for the time being to address those gathered.

"Forty-five seconds," Sandra says. "That's how fast it took for the whippoorwills to get word to air support when the target was engaged. Two to three minutes for the enemy to get a visual on us in the Realm. As for destroying the web pillars," she looks to Kaminari, "we have reason to believe that consulting with the Galliards of both the Wendigo and Uktena tribes will go a long way towards solidifying whether or not we're on the right track." A pause.

Then: "There's reason to believe that we are, however. Shaw has made his 'stance' on the towers clear: that they're worthy of a vague defensive effort, insofar as it includes taking down Garou that cross the gauntlet in the first place. To wit, there are no active guards at the former caern, which Kaminari can explain; no attempts to shield that tower from being destroyed. I'd like an assessment of all the webs that have taken root in the upcoming days, if at all possible, to see if this remains true of all of them. The only one I'd ask that people avoid is the one in Mexicantown."

A beat. "Personally," she goes on to say, "I believe his inaction, his 'disinterest,' is a fakeout-- and it's one that fits his tactical profile. Bait and ambush. Be it in letting us think he's become overconfident, or that he simply doesn't have the assets to devote to defense. I believe he'll allow us to progress further against the web constructs, until such time as we move in for the final push. At that point, he's likely to pull an ambush.

"Now: assuming that there's no 'negative' impact that severing these connections might have on the ancient bane sleeping under Zug Island - one that's been named the 'Unmaker's Prince' - I want to start developing a counterattack for whatever he has in store for us. Anything that might throw him off-guard. Skylar's tracking methods will go a long way towards assisting with that, as will handling Sebastian. It's possible that all three of these can be interwoven in such a way to throw Shaw and MDCI off their game enough to make a serious impact. For now, though, it's a matter of gaining more intel."

A Fang gone lord? That's enough to catch Sera's attention. She makes a single note but otherwise remains... imperiously aloof, one might say. A nod is given to Skylar at her own statements but now her gaze is on Sandra with an unspoken 'go on' to her. It's clear that they'd discussed much of this previously given her lack of surprise.

Sandra takes a brief look around once she's done saying the bulk of that. "Another item worth mentioning is that one of the local kin, Shadi, with whom many of you are familiar - and if you're not, rest assured, you will be - uncovered a full list of MDCI clientele, as well as their corresponding radio codes. The idea has been raised that it might be time to take a more-- active approach to hitting some of the company's client base. They're already under heavy public scrutiny, and diminishing their numbers would obviously be in our best interest. The idea is to hit their soft targets first, so anyone who's competantly stealthy and eager to make a nuisance of themselves should speak to me at their earliest convenience. I'll be happy to explain it to you in further detail.

"It'll likely move on from there to a more coordinated effort to draw their fire. The public at large is getting more than a little on edge in respects to how the police conduct themselves. I'm sure you can imagine how they'd feel about a paramilitary security firm bringing out one of their fully loaded helicopters in the midst of a major metropolitan location, and that's more or less what we'd like to build towards. Anyone who'd like to discuss *that* is, similarly, welcome to speak to me at any time."

She looks to the Hakken, then, and gestures for her to approach, apparently seeing it fit to yield the floor. For now, anyway.

Skylar's simple shift of weight turns to a full pacing as Sandra speaks, finding space behind the others where she can. When the subject turns to MDCI, her shoulders roll, an uncomfortable look crossing her face.

Derek evinced no surprise at Sandra's introduction; perhaps they've met. His face remained fairly difficult to read, his body posture ramrod straight. That said, when Oliver spoke up? He couldn't seem to help but arch a brow. Definitely surprised, there, though he's not very expressive about it. Now, though, he's listening intently as each speaker says their piece. The Hakken has the conch now, so he turns his attention to her once more.

Jasmine still remains silent on these issues, as she's not sneaky and she's not a saboteur, so she's not sure how she fits into either of those plans. She does, however, start thinking on bringing down those pillars and the birds that seem to attack. This is interesting to her.

Jim would quietly walk toward the conch and its current holder. When he hops off of the table he tries to be quiet about it. But looking, and listening, he tries to figure out the protocol of how to get a turn.

Kaminari rises from where she was seated and moves to take the bone bone and the floor from Sandra, "Adding to what Sandra-san had to say. Despite all the rumors that the nation believes, it is true, the Sept of Pontiac's Secret not only fell to attackers, the Caern was outright destroyed. There were spiral marks at the sight but it was completely devoured by the pillar, no pit just destruction by webs. There were no battle lines, no defenses of any kind, one could simply walk to where the Caern Heart used to be if they knew the way. What's more the pillar there is different, the web reached further than it otherwise would creating an extra pseudopod type extension just to strike at that Caern which would have been outside of its normal reach. I could feel the malicious intent behind it when I stood there, like the web phenomena was hijacked and guided by an outside will. The blood of the fallen still lingers there as well."

She pauses taking a breath, "As was said, Zug Island is also an issue. After summoning the spirit of one of the oldest willow trees on Belle island it was learned that the spirits hide even in Gaian places near the river not just because of its taint which has been a problem since the factories came to the region but because of the Unmaker's Prince, a great Bane that has been on the banks of the Detroit River since far longer than the spirit could remember. It also said the Unmaker's Prince remained bound there at great Sacrifice, but fled before it could elaborate further due too banes from the river attacking the summoning. So I think a trip to other Septs in the region is needed, so we can consult the Galliards and Theurges of the tribes that have been here longest and convey news of what has been uncovered so fewer Garou recruits will be lured to their deaths thinking they are helping and perhaps more brought to our cause instead. It is alarming that even the Corax and the Tengu when I arrived myself, did not know the truth of things."

Skylar pauses in her pacing to stare at Kaminari for a moment. She breathes out a frustrated sigh, and then resumes, keeping to the back of the room, and even stepping up onto the arm, and then the back of the couch.

As Sandra steps back alongside Oliver, she listens-- and something there at the end gets an immediate rise out of her. Everything goes tense in an instant, a rapid bleed of amber seeping into blue eyes until it's all forcibly bitten back. Takes serious effort just to look somewhere else - specifically towards the exit - after which point she takes a breath, and lets out a slow, even exhale. The energy that rose from her is dissipated, at least; controlled, for now, though she keeps her eyes on the exit for as long as it takes for the wave to pass entirely.

Jim tries to take a moment to speak if he can. He senses the tension in the room, but steels himself to speak anyway. "If I could be begging your pardon, y'all. Name's Jim Gomez. Corax from Fort Worth, Texas." Like anyone had any doubts on that point the second he opened his mouth.

With a breath, he continues. "I was fixin to follow the spirits, on account of an eclipse on my birthday was a bad omen. They brought me here. Apparently y'all have a right war going on, and I'm might could help if you let me. I'm not much for fighting except with a rifle, not like y'all, but birds can sneak and we can listen. Thank y'all for having me here tonight." He then pauses for questions, and otherwise goes to resume his perch in the back again.

Sera's own expression tightens by a degree. Obviously, this isn't /news/ to her but it hardly slips past the Fang's control. Instead, she turns towards Skylar with a slightly raised eyebrow, as if to ask 'what's on your mind'.

Clearly, she thinks she has something more she wants to say judging by the pacing. When Jim volunteers to speak up, her attention is instead on him.

Kaminari raises an eyebrow at Jim's words and holds out the bone for him to take, "By all means Mr. Jim Corax from Texas." she seems intrigued.

Winifred stands, quiet and listening, stoic and really wishing she could smoke inside.

Jim takes another breath. When questioned on what he knows, pressed for more, he frowns, and shakes his head. Rubbing the back of his neck. "I don't know who Shaw is, and I don't know what he's up to. One of my sun lost cousins, bless his heart, he warned me somethin was a going on here." Another pause, making eye contact with one Garou and another. "I have some maps of the Umbra here, vague ones. Got damn mess, pardon my French. Y'all probably know more already, but I can sketch for you later." Then he sits, having dumped his brain.

Something in Skylar's mood actually lightens when Jim introduces himself, and her brows rise in an expression of interest. Catching Sera's look, she shakes her head, but then stops and bites at the edge of her lip before nodding and heading back to the counter that serves as a stage.

She looks over to Sera and draws in a breath before facing the rest. "We got t' do better at makin' plans t'gether, an' workin' t'gether, an' tellin' each other th' stuff we learn. An' talkin' 'bout what we want t' do, 'cause y' just said a bunch 'f stuff, y' just spent a lot 'f time an' took chances t' find out a bunch of stuff. An' some 'f it people found out over a year ago."

Oliver leans back in his seat, listening to Sandra and Kaminari speak and taking in what he can see of the room's responses. His own are fairly subtle -- interest, particularly in Sandra's plans, and a faint darkening at the relation of 'luring'. His own thoughts on that are distracted by the effect on his packmate, and he lifts a hand to lightly touch her shoulder, calming-like. No interruption otherwise of her self-gathering, and he watches the introduction of the Corax, and explanation of his presence, with some curiosity.

Sandra glances to Oliver once his hand comes to rest on her shoulder, a short nod offered to him as if to give some reassurance that she's all right. Might *not* be, soon, as her attention turns rather abruptly towards Skylar, what can only be called a damning stare evident in her expression. It's likely thanks only to the presence of a packmate that there isn't an immediate resurgence of overactive anger issues, but, hoo, boy, that is a *look*.

For whatever reason Rage flashes through Kaminari's stormy eyes when Skylar speaks, but otherwise does not elaborate but she is clearly not a happy camper at those words.

Unlike Sandra's sudden shift in demeanor, Derek's is a slow burn. His look is flat, almost bland, and then as Kaminari talks, his breathing speeds up slightly, and his lips form a thin line. That's all for a few moments, but slowly his expression grows grim, his fists clenching. They stay that way for some time, and then he glances to them, carefully flexing his hands to relax them.

The looks don't seem to faze Skylar, though there's clearly tension running through her, already. She repeats her nod to Sera and returns to the back of the gathering, pacing.

Sera nods to Skylar in that moment, and then looks around at the gathered, assessing who might want to say something. Her gaze settles on Oliver for the moment, and... though it might not please her overly much to acknowledge the relative newcomer for whatever reason, nonetheless, there's a wordless gesture, offering him the floor.

It looks *very* much like Sandra's about to say something-- several things, in fact, several not particularly friendly things, but Sera's attention turning towards her packmate subdues that for the time being. Her chin raises, and while there's another pointed stare tracking the Walker Ragabash back and forth throughout that pacing, she holds her tongue. Forcibly, granted, but she manages.

Oliver unfolds to his feet, and extends a hand to take the speaking-bone, unhurried. "As a new arrival, I'm sure the number of things about the situation I don't yet know approaches infinity," he says, "so I certainly support telling each other stuff we learn. However, the idea that we ought to is only as effective as effort being made and cooperated with, and lands mostly on those who know things already. New arrivals can ask questions, of course, but it takes a while to find which questions need asking, and of whom. It also relies on those asked being willing to answer." His gaze falls on the pacing Glass Walker, with that. "Until, of course, we develop sufficient psychic ability. Meanwhile, may I suggest we consider developing a formal method of ensuring important information is easily accessible? I don't know how many Galliards we have in these parts," a glance around the room, as if they might pop up, "but if it isn't enough that this kind of thing can be left on their shoulders, some sort of regular meeting to disseminate what's been learned recently and bring newer people up to date might be in order." A small pause. "And if there already is such a thing, perhaps it could use a revamp. That," he indicates the map with a vague wave of the bone, "is a good start, I'm sure, but not what one would call self-explanatory, and I suspect there's a good deal it can't easily record."

He looks around again, this time for anyone clearly giving off 'me next' signals.

Said Glass Walker's pacing stops. Her fists twist in the fabric of her skirt and her jaw sets, teeth grinding. She turns away from the makeshift stage and heads closer to the boiler room door.

Sandra seems to settle a bit, overall, and while her eyes still track Skylar throughout that pacing, it ends with a slight shake of her head once the move to the boiler room is made. For her part, she no longer appears to be chomping at the bit to make any amendments to what's been said.

Oliver glances after the rainbow Ragabash as she leaves, and catches a motion from Warez. He brings the speaking-bone over, presenting it to him almost formally, with a small inclination of his head.

Kaminari raises one hand in a simple gesture seeming to request the bone from Oliver, though she does not speak.. yet. There is still lightning in her eyes, seemingly literally, that's some freaky shit.

Warez' gesture, a subtle lift of one claw, is almost out of place on the Crinos form; something more appropriate to a business meeting. "Thank you," the Glasswalker says, a little bit awkwardly in the form. "I'm curious," he begins, "since I've been out of the loop myself, having other priorities that my pack have been focused on, what the evidence is that these columns are the... 'key to retaking the umbra' was the phrase, I believe. And in what way, slash, to what extent, this is expected to be the case. There's a lot gone wrong in the Umbra of late, after all, much of it predates these growths. But I'm interested to hear the theory behind these efforts." The Theurge also saw Kaminari's gesture and perhaps since she's spoken on the matter before, he looks to give her the floor.

Kaminari accepts the bone back, "Warez Seeker-Rhya, if you will forgive me one moment, there is something that I cannot let slide and then I shall answer your questions in full." her gaze turns back to Skylar and it is not a happy one, it's like being glared at by an angry storm cloud amidst a tempest. "All of these actions, these plans, were discussed with others, Serafina-Rhya too was consulted about everything. Where were -you-? If you knew these things, if you did these things? Were were -you- and why weren't you sharing them so I did not have to duplicate efforts? I have seen you perhaps twice in the past year, to come here and offer lectures when it was you not sharing the information? Does your audacity know no bounds?" she takes a centering breath and turns her attention back to Warez.

"Apologies Warez Seeker-Rhya, I do not believe destroying the pillars will solve all of the Umbra's problems, I do believe it will weaken substiantially if not break the Weaver's control over the city's umbra. Right now the penumbra here looks more like Tokyo or some glittering Megacity than Detroit. The Automata that normally only appear in further realms are here in great numbers. When we cut one of the pillars, we discovered that they were full of what seemed like distilled corrupted water from the Detroit River, like they are the arteries by which the entire sphere maintains its corrupt circulation. Further when we scouted the area in the days after, the automata spirits were almost completely gone, the water's flow had stopped and pattern spiders were busy restoring things in their natural way." she offers him a polite bow before offering the bone back to him if he seeks it.

Sandra offers a nod of confirmation to what Kaminari says. The latter part, not the former. Her attention is off Skylar for now, one way or another, and likely for good reason.

Skylar freezes. Controlled breaths, in and out. She looks toward the stage as Kaminari leaves it, looks as though she may make a bid to return, but instead, holds her ground, fingers flexing and clenching over and again.

When Warez has the bone back, he nods again. "I do not wish to detract from your work, but I feel compelled to point out that this is all circumstantial evidence. Automata, as you observe, are not - to my knowledge - known to manifest at all outside the deeper regions of the Umbra. That they are here suggests many things - but that they vanish does not necessarily herald a return to the prior status quo; any disruption of that nature, such as introducing a corrupted presence into their surroundings, could also be enough to send them scurrying for 'safer' grounds. I want to believe that this will bear the fruit you are hoping for, but I feel that we must be prepared for different outcomes. Too many years have gone by with too little action, I'm glad of the momentum you have - but, for example," and here, the theurge indicates Sandra, "That Shaw's forces, or allies, or whatever, sent a response to your attack on the column is hardly significant; those forces will respond to any crossing of the Gauntlet, as near as my own pack has observed. Be it out in the Measure 2 lands, or in the financial district. The most potent response we have observed seemed centered around the Packard Motor Plant. You'dve thought the National Guard was out there, from what we've gathered. The whippoorwills do not seem to respect geography and they also do not seem to make mistakes." Deliberately, and carrying on as if the tempers were not, in fact, flaring all around him, Warez offers Sandra the right to speak, since he had spoken directly to her.

Accepting the bone, Sandra says, "I said what I did using the phrases 'I believe' for a reason," foregoing the honorifics, though her tone isn't quite as confrontational as one might expect it to be. "You're right: the evidence is all circumstantial. But given precious littel to go on, we're doing what we can to move forward. If you, or anyone, has further information to offer? I'm all ears. I'd be thrilled to listen to anyone who can make a case for it.

"That said: this is why I said I'd like to work on a strategy. The more progress we make, the more we'll be able to see which theories hold water. So to speak." A beat. "As you say: too many years with too little action. We don't have the luxury of having incidents to point to. And, if we do, they're too outdated to work with. As of right now, we're talking about approaching soft targets that may prove to be more substantial, in the long run. Or, they may not be. But unless there's an incredibly compelling reason that it isn't worth trying, I'd rather not listen to incessant handwringing, or 'thou shalt not's' when we don't have much information on hand to work with, or turn to."

That said, Sandra hands Warez back the proverbial floor, letting him get a word in if he desires. Or anyone else, for that matter.

Warez actually declines that offer, saying simply, "Thank you, I wanted to be clear about where all this stood on the spectrum of strategem."

Still with the palpable rage running through her, Skylar takes the opportunity to step forward for the third time. She waits for a moment, gathering herself with a visible shifting of weight, shaking out her hands at her sides. "I said what I did, 'cause it's important. I didn' say nobody did nothin' wrong. I said *we* gotta get better. *We* gotta have ways t' get information t' people. You don' know how many people 've come here, an' then disappeared. How many people 've come here an' maybe died, 'r maybe joined Damian, 'r maybe died. How many times people've started t' do somethin', an' maybe it was workin' an' maybe it wasn't, but they're gone, so nobody knows. *We* gotta have better ways 'f makin' sure th' new people that come t' fill th' spots th' other people left find out th' things they need t' know. You wan't t' blame me f' bein' busy makin' talens? Y' want t' blame me f' being busy keepin' this place safe at night? Diggin' th' hidden entrance so we can come an' go an' not be seen 'f Damien's people start watchin' th' door? Or scoutin' all th' warehouses he's got? Or savin' people comin' in with his fake leadin' talens? Go 'head. I ain't said y' did nothin' bad. I ain't talkin' bad 'bout anybody else. All I said is *WE* gotta do better." She doesn't wait for a response, but heads right for the boiler room door and stands there, hand on the knob.

A sharp look gets turned in Skylar's direction. This time, Sandra does address her, saying, "That's a rich diatribe coming from you, of all people. And I'd be perfectly happy to hear all about it if it weren't for having to cut through the absurd layers of red tape that apparently gets in the way of *you*, the information gatherer, doing your job and *sharing* that information. *We* have to do better?" And there's that look again, her own body tense, her posture straightening. "*You* do better.

"This is the first I've heard about any talens, or tunnels. The first I've heard of the stories you *could* tell, after I asked you, up front, for that information. So, unless that riveting speech was something you plan on using to tamp down your own flagrant hypocrisy, I suggest you carry through with your one-woman temper tantrum, and take a time-out."

Sera rises from her seat, taking on that stiffened posture, that /tension/ that radiates off her with the commanding presence that Silver Fangs are known for.

"This is how it has played out through out our history. Time and again, we have been called to take comamnd of our destiny, to bring the battle to the enemy. Time and again, we have fallen short in our duties. Not because our words aren't clever enough, nor our claws sharp enough, nor our bites strong enough. Always have we had those things. Instead, we fall upon ourselves. Our reasons might be logical, our distrust understandable, our fears rational... our experiences shaping us to guard ourselves from each other. We can ill afford the tensions that brings right now. I, alone, can not be the repository upon which we place all our secrets. We must share with each other so that if one falls, others can step into place to do their duty. We must set aside our differences here and now, in this place, to bring the fight to the Enemy, to Shaw. He is counting on the tensions, on our natural inclination, to stop us from presenting a true united front in the most desperate of times. We can not allow this cycle to repeat itself once more. Guard your hearts against distrust, resentment and focous your rage on the Enemy. With things so dire it is easy to turn ally to enemy with resentment. I will not allow that to pass."

"/We/ must not allow that to pass."

Skylar doesn't open the door, doesn't exit the moot, though her hand remains on the knob, gripping tightly enough that her knuckles show white beneath already pale skin. She almost holds her breath as Sandra goes on, the tension in her only growing more apparent. She's still chewing on her own rage, weight shifting side to side, her free hand opening and closing around a fistful of fabric, when Sera begins to speak. It's not that her words help, but they don't, at least, push her any further, and she remains where she is for a little longer.

Sandra doesn't seem to take the Philodox's words poorly, at least. May not think they apply to her in this situation, all told-- but, one way or another, she's said what she aimed to say, and the conch is out of her possession regardless. It's with this that she turns her attention back to Sera entirely, but only once that look in her eyes begins to cool.

"I want to bring up something important and that's the possibility of bringing a Caern to life in Detroit again. I believe we've had some potential progress on locations that may be viable. Rogue Park and Belle Island, correct? We need to find better options." She looks at Skylar, then Kaminari. Clearly, she expects that people will have opinions.

Skylar follows Sera's gaze to Kaminari and then returns her focus to the Silver Fang. For a moment more, her hand remains gripping the doorknob, and then draws in a breath and turns to face the others. The roll of her shoulders is half-shrug, half intended to dissipate some of the remaining tension. "Th' park's dead. An' Belle Isle..." She shrugs. "I don' know. I ain't a theurge, but it's all Weavery. Might as well build a caern here, 'stead 'f either 'f those places, s' far as I can tell. But I ain't a theurge. I just know what I saw."

Kaminari waits until the bone is passed to her after Skylar is done speaking, "Belle Island used to be a Caern at one point, the heart is dead, choked by the Weaver but there is still something lingering there and it should be possible to cleanse, remove that which came and choked it and create a new Caern. However that is a dangerous undertaking all on its own. Rouge park I think could also be cleansed, the power of the destroyed heart can still be felt lingering too, but the web pillar must be dealt with first and it poses a unique challenge in that the umbral forest there would be exposed to water from the Detroit River and possibly corrupted, cleansing efforts needed there would be substantial I think, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be worth doing. There is another island in the river that is covered by forest, Mud Island, I found it using google maps, but I have not been able to scout it yet. Mud Island is already part of a Wildlife Sanctuary though and protected, humans are not allowed there. There may be other possible sites, though from my conversation with the Willow Spirit on Belle Island, I think the Unmaker's Prince beneath Zug Island would probably need to be dealt with in some fashion before an island Caern would be truly viable."

Sandra gestures for the bone, and says, "Both are inadequate," simply. "They're lost causes, as bases of operation go. Worse, as of now, they're in the heart of enemy territory. Like it or not, we need a place to retreat to just as much as we need a spiritual center. A place that we're *not* constantly defending." She looks around. "I don't need to remind some of you that the same tricks that allow caerns to be shielded in environments like these are the same ones that Shaw knows well. And while Mud Island may be an option, anything along the river poses its own continual risks.

"We need to start focusing our efforts further away from the city itself. Further inland. Someday, it's possible Belle Isle and Rouge Park could be put to use, but if we want to open a caern sooner, rather than later, both would take far too much work. Years worth, in fact, and there's even less guarantees that we'll be successful in purifying either of them to the point of being truly viable. Even that process would require heavy defenses, which takes away from other important work that needs to be done within the city itself."

Winifred continues to watch, absorb, and think.

Skylar doesn't speak out, but something Kami says about Rogue Park gets a sharp look. Her shoulders roll again, hand returning to the doorknob, if somewhat looser than before, and she nods when Sandra speaks.

Warez Seeker pipes up here, "Probably about twice a year, my packmates and I get the idea to talk about future caerns. We don't have the option to leave the city, because reasons," which he's not going to explain, from the sound of it, "which has forced us to be... creative. There's a thing happening out there in the Measure 2 lands - it's not the 'no humans' ban that Mud Island has, but it's a far sight better than 'actively a park.' There's hints of wildness out there, though. Mostly weeds and grasses, sure, but nature is reclaiming those spaces, tearing down or brushing aside the built environment. What's more, the area could easily be staked out and defended without needing to rely on the extensive wards that Pontiac's Secret required to keep park goers from wandering too deeply into the bawn - and it was bad enough there, believe me.

"This approach, however, would require some... aggressive boundary setting and enforcement. Right now the human populations out there are mostly your organized criminal element. These, however, could be run out - /if/ we were able to first disrupt Shaw's grip on the City. He remains the primary obstacle, in my estimation, to anything like making a new caern somewhere. Those Rites already paint a big target on anyone engaged in it. We'd need a lot of help to complete the Rite itself, and then we'd need to establish a bawn the old fashioned way - driving out the other predators. That's messy work, but if done /correctly/, the rest of the world will read it like gang violence - and the veil won't suffer even if we regularly clash with humans."

Taking notes while Warez' speaks, Sera then takes the conch back.

"It is something that has potential, I agree, but we can ill afford to only do 'one' thing. Obviously, the time must be right and Shaw weakened before we can truly build a Caern but the preparations, groundwork and more is a potentially years long process. Skylar, earlier you said you had an idea about Sebastian. I'd like to hear it."

Skylar seems thoughtful when Warez speaks, not much in her expression to show what those thoughts might be. When Sera turns the focus back to her she chews on the corner of her lip for a moment before making her way back to the counter. "Yeah," she says, and looks over to Warez. "It depends on bein' able t' know where he might be, but if we got th' name right, an' maybe 'f Warez's got some more info on 'im it might be enough f' th' rite t' work t' find 'im, yeah? Or if we can at least know if he's at one 'f th' meets. Anyway. I been thinkin' 'bout ways t' stop 'im from turnin' t' smoke. I don' know how he's doin' it. If it's a fetish, 'r a gift, 'r if he's a fomor? So it might depend on that. Maybe there's a better way, 'f we know how he's doin' it. But if we can't stop it? Maybe we can catch 'im. Suck 'im into a box, yeah? I ain't that good with spirits, but somethin' like a vacuum, yeah? Pull 'im into a box when he turns t' smoke, an' trap 'im."

"Fomor," Warez says... with some measure of burden. "He was kin until Damian got to him." Two-Laws lets that one slide.

"Shadi unearthed his real name as 'Sebastian Kent'. She's confirmed it in so far as she can," answers Sera. "Did you know him back then?" She pulls something from her notebook, "Is this him?" She holds up a picture of what appears to be a teenager with some serious mullet action going on.

Skylar nods. More quietly, she adds, "That's kind'f what I thought." She frowns, shrugs, and heads back to her chosen place by the door.

Warez squints at the photo, "That looks like it was probably taken before I knew him, but... yeah that's him."

"Entirely possible. How much do we know about the relationship between Shaw and Sebastian?" asks Sera.

It's not an unreasonable question. "He never seems far from Shaw himself."

Skylar leans against the door, weight on her hand on the knob, and raises her other hand.

Kaminari doesn't appear to have much to add on this topic, and keeps her peace for now, stormy eyes still smoldering. Though she listens quite attentively when Warez speaks.

"He's with Damien when Damien's out that I've seen, but I seen the skaterpunk a few times without Damien," Skylar notes. "So it ain't that they're always together. Might be that Damien wants Sebastian t' be with him f' that get-away, like at th' factory, but Sebastian runs lots 'f errands without Damien."

~His smoke-trick is not a thing he can do on reflex, either. I have sank my fangs into him; if it were reflex, I could not have held him as long as I did. If he is surprised, he cannot take the smoke-form.~ This is from Two-Laws, who's own Garou speech is powerfully influenced by his breed.

Skylar nods at Two-Laws, a glance toward Derek, after.

"So if we find where he sleeps, he can perhaps be assassinated with a quick strike." Kaminari offers, "Though it is probably somewhere secure like and MDCI barracks, at least that's what I might do if I were him."

"A possibility," agrees Sera as she makes additional notes. "Let's see if we can identify where he lives and then we can plan from there," a glances towards Skylar. "From there, we can determine the best path forward on him."

Derek clears his throat very quietly at the glance from Skylar-- it's more of a thoughts-gathering sort of thing than an attempt to call attention to himself. That said, he then lifts a hand, silently requesting the bone. Assuming it's handed over, he'll say, "I don't understand the nature of his power at this time. That said, if he has to consciously activate the power, there must be some manner we could disrupt him from enabling it. Anything from Skylar's idea of trapping him, to-- if it turns out he's forced to concentrate to do so-- disrupting his concentration with pain via setting him on fire, with distractions, et cetera. Worst case, perhaps a visit to beyond the boundaries of Shaw's reach to procure spiritual aid in guiding our hand, or in negotiating with spirits to assist us in trapping him."

Oliver, unsurprisingly, is back to quietly attentive and thoughtful, taking all this in. Probably all new to him -- or at least mostly. One corner of his lips quirks up slightly at Skylar's suggestion of catching the fomor-smoke by sucking it into a box, and he murmurs, "Just don't cross the streams."